Let’s get started.
Here is the official entry page for the Fighting Lion.
Grenades bounce. Delayed detonation.
Thin the Herd
Direct hits do more damage to enemy combatant shields. Rapid kills against grenade-damaged enemies refill the magazine. Kills always drop Primary ammo.
Masterwork Perk: Chimera
After this weapon fires, equipped Kinetic and Power weapons gain a brief period of increased handling and accuracy.
Caution: The API is showing different stats than the actual in-game results. As a result, DIM, Light.gg, DestinyTracker, DestinySets, and the official entry page all show different/incorrect values. Note: this is not a result of perk application not showing. These are radically different values that conflict.
Fighting Lion is an Exotic Break Action, Breach Loading Void Energy Slot Grenade Launcher.
Exotic perks and Archetype
The “Exotic” perk is
Delayed Gratification, which is the same perk as
Lightweight Frame from legendary single shot grenade launchers:
One-shot handheld Grenade Launcher with remote detonation. Hold to fire, release to detonate.
Lightweight Frames in Destiny 2, it offers an intrinsic Mobility bonus, +20 on the Shadowkeep scale.
7290 RPM like all Lightweight frames
Misleading, RPM is gated by reload speed, not firing rate. The practical RPM of Fighting Lion is dictated not by frame RPM, but by reloading. Testing by the Fighting Lion community pegs the actual RPM as 40.5 RPM.
With that out of the way, it’s worth looking at the actual exotic perk:
Thin the Herd. There are three full distinct parts and each of them is more than can be discussed in a short list.
- Direct hits do more damage to enemy combatant shields.
- In Crucible, this is not in effective. In PvE, Void damage naturally does a huge amount of damage. Solar is a hefty boost over damage to an unshielded enemy, but bonus damage against Arc shields is effectively non-existent. See Detailed Damage for more.
- Rapid kills against grenade-damaged enemies refill the magazine.
- This aspect of the perk is badly worded.
- If you do damage with Fighting Lion, getting a kill (against any target), will refill the magazine.
- A rapid kill after or before causing damage with the target will refill it. See Techniques for more.
- Kills always drop Primary ammo.
- There is zero cooldown here and a single brick will completely refill your ammo in PvP, with NO scavenger perks. See Ammo Management below for more.
+27 Reload speed from 55 to 82. That’s an astonishing 50% increase.
Chimera - After this weapon fires, equipped Kinetic and Power weapons gain a brief period of increased handling and accuracy.
Chimera lasts for 3 seconds after firing the Lion and gives the same bonuses as
Snapshot Sights and
Let me say that again. Fighting Lion’s Masterwork perk gives your Kinetic weapon the following perks:
Here’s what a swap & ADS test with a
Quickdraw 110rpm vs a non-
Quickdraw 110rpm Hand Cannon looks like:
27 Handling Home for the Lost with
Quickdrawand a 26 Handling Crimil’s Dagger. Click here for video.
It’s essentially Lucky Pants 2.0 but for every weapons type. It’s better than Ophidian Aspect, but can be stacked with Chimera. Dragon’s Shadow is faster, and cannot be stacked with Chimera.
Using the Gun
- Hold to Fire, Release to Detonate
- 90% of your hits will not be full damage, but that is okay.
- How long can you hold for detonation?
- You can hold a grenade for 6 seconds before it times out and detonates on its own.
- Lion is a gun that is meant to be hip-fired. The iron sights are there, but you should avoid using them. Learn the arcs and distances without it and you’ll be a stronger player. Especially because hipfiring skill carries over to other guns like The Last Word, sidearms, etc.
- Too close to arm
- The Fighting Lion grenade needs 15 meters (or about a 0.5 seconds) to prime itself before it can be detonated (unless it’s a body hit). This means you can’t do an in-air detonation in close proximity to yourself.
PvE only: Inverted Lion
Thin the Herd perk says “Rapid hits against Grenade Damaged Targets Refill the Magazine”.
The kills don’t have to be against grenade damaged opponents for starters. But also!
You can get the kill first! Behold, the Inverted Lion!
This doesn’t work in Crucible, however.
The reload cap is approximately 20% faster. A single reloader will get you 80% of that cap. Check out Armor: Mods & Stats for more information on reload speed mods.
But that’s only part of the story! Fighting Lion will automatically reload after the round you’ve fired detonates. However!
Reloading is special with Fighting Lion as you can manually begin a reload immediately after firing, even while holding to detonate the fired round.
This process is referred to as Manual Reloading. This removes the entire recoil animation and allows for reloading nearly 2x as fast. Reload mods do help even if you’re doing manual reloads.
As you can see, Manual Reloading significantly cuts down on recoil & return, and eliminates the cooldown. It’s still not anywhere close to 90 rpm, though.
Manual reloading: Practice hitting reload after you fire the weapon. Don’t wait until after detonate the round!
It is tricky to get the perfect timing to pull this off however. The community has developed a macro for this purpose, but even that can be inconsistent. The Macro is really for instructive purposes only. It’s cool script, but it’s not feasible to use in Crucible for any real means.
Disclaimer Bungie’s stance on scripting is really unclear since Titan Skate macro users weren’t punished in any way, and manual reload is technically possible without the script. There’s nothing in here about aiming or exploiting code. Using a macro, you risk anti-cheat measures from Bungie. That said, this script is relatively benign and doesn’t break anything or do anything a human can’t do. Use with caution.
Exotic Perk: Thin the Herd guarantees an ammo brick on kill. Occasionally, a second brick will fall from a kill, as it would from any kill. These two bricks are different. The brick from the exotic perk will refill your ammo reserves entirely in Crucible. The random kill brick has a variable amount and needs further testing.
- Spawning Ammo: 9
- Maximum Ammo: 20, without perks
Maximum Ammo: 24, with double reserves
- Ammo per random drop brick: 8,10,15
- Ammo per kill brick: FULL (i.e. 20 to 24, depending on reserves perks)
Refer to Armor: Perks & Stats for more on how to manage your ammo with perks.
It is possible to have your grenade shot out of the air.
Scumbag Lion round. Deals 168 damage, can’t even take 10.
The Fighting Lion grenade has <=11 hp in Crucible, (as tested by a rapid fire SMG.)
Disclaimer These are very rare, and/or hard to exploit, so don’t freak out.
Double Increased Damage after death
Watch close and you can see the Lion did 180+33, killing the Golden Gun Hunter.
If you fire your round and are killed before you detonate it, it will detonate on impact with a guardian or the timer. Instead of the normal 144+22 damage, it will instead be 175 + 27. It happens rarely and mostly when I engage with long-range, insta-kill targets such as snipers or Golden Guns.
This used to be literally double damage, but since patch 2.8.0, it’s merely +27% damage, and since Y4 it’s down to +22%.
Murder Friendly Fire
Because Fighting Lion is a projectile, you can cause people in ManCannons (lifts) to receive too much change in velocity and the Architects will kill them. Only really doable in The Haul in Recknoning and Public Event lifts, and such. Sorry,,,
Happens when someone is touch a wall and the grenade hits them twice.